How does this coaching stuff work?

Chapter 3 in “Coaching Writers” and Tom Huang’s “Three Key  Moments” article deal with specific strategies for working with writers. What struck you as novel, revelatory or worthwhile in this chapter?

For me, it’s a sentence in the “Editing Side by Side” sidebar on page 31: “Failure is normal and instructive.” That sure isn’t the way this perfectionist was raised. But I like Murray’s notion that “writing is experimental. We don’t know what works until we try it.” I need to embrace this more in my writing. And in life.


48 responses to “How does this coaching stuff work?

  1. What struck me in the text was on page 23 toward the bottom of the page where it says “Just because a writer hands in a story does not mean that the writer is satisfied with it.” It explains that editors have to ask their writers how they feel the story went and if there were parts in it that they still weren’t sure about. I know as a writer I have felt like something I turned in just wasn’t right yet and I wanted a second opinion on it. The text also says that editors should ask questions of the piece to help the writer reveal what they think the flaws are to the editor. I thought this was interesting because I know as a writer you never want to admit that there are flaws in your piece. I think having an editor that is willing to ask you how you felt you did will help a writer better the piece and feel at ease with the editor. I think an editor asking questions of a writer helps the story, and helps form a good relationship between the editor and writer. I want to be able to ask my editor for help and share my story problems with them.

    • I totally can relate to that! A lot of times I don’t feel completely confident in what I handed in to an editor and am hoping for a second opinion that will help me develop the story in a better way. The relationship between an editor and a writer is a crucial one because if there isn’t good, clear communication it can lead to a lot of problems.

  2. For me, the most relevant section of this chapter was on page 28: The Unnatural Art of Listening. Simply fixing someone’s work can make them feel insecure; having a conversation about the writing without showing interest can also cause harm.
    I liked the phrase, “You have to want to listen.” In order to achieve the best results, both the writer and the editor have to want to be engaged in the work and be willing to work together.

    • I agree with you, Rylee, when you talk about the human side of editing. Clark and Fry really focused on building emotional and interpersonal relationships between writers and editors. In the same “The Unnatural Art of listening” section that you mentioned there were even tips for verbal and non-verbal cues that aid the coaching process. I especially liked the idea of the coach/editor taking the time to reflect and restate the writers points and feelings. This way, not only is the editor listening, but they can show the writer that they’re deeply invested in the process.

    • I think that this is one of the main points of the chapter that I appreciated most. I really like the acknowledgement of a combined effort to create a work and the continual reference to consultation between the two as a conversation. I think a good point for writers to take from this chapter is to retain a certain level of indifference about their work. A writer entering a conversation about their piece needs to be open to making changes without taking it personally even though it can be rather difficult.

  3. After reading the chapter “How to Consult With Reporters” and Huang’s piece, I was struck by the fact that on page 26 of the chapter addressed the same three stages for editor consultation as the Poynter piece. I suppose good advice never gets old.

    Both of the readings solidified a realization I have each time I struggle with a piece and an editor is able to help get me back on track. Editors aid writers because they coerce them into asking questions and solidifying their story. Reading the suggested questions for writers I found it rather amusing that common sense would have a story teller consider those specific details but when a writer gets “stuck” the basics are often lost.

    Another aspect of “How to Consult With Reporters” that I really appreciated was the frequent reference to consultations as conversations. In my experience a good conversation about a piece puts me at ease regardless of a short deadline or uninteresting assignment. It may be a bit of a one sided conversation in which writers are speaking more than editors as the authors suggest. However, if I were an author I’d rather speak with my writers than to have an office full of people talking to themselves!

    • That’s a really good point, Monica, about the similarities between the suggested steps in both readings. I also latched on to the idea of how questions can get a writer to focus back in on the basics. The Huang piece talked a lot about the narrative elements of journalism including the “scenes” and “characters”. Although we are engrained in a culture of storytelling from a young age, sometimes the pressure of the job makes us forget those basic elements we know so well. This is when an editor steps in to ask the important questions and get us back on track. Thus, sometimes a coach just needs to push writers to reveal what they already know how to do.

  4. I noticed on page 26 in “How to Consult With Reporters”, this chapter talked a lot about the same things Huang did in “3 Key Moments”. This to me really emphasized the fact that editors are like the backbone of a writer. Someone to bounce ideas off, make sure your story makes sense to someone else besides your self and a fresh pair of eyes for spell checking and grammar.
    Key moments number 2 and 3 were the most important to me. My biggest struggle is keeping a narrow focus throughout the story and being able to incorporate different views into one piece. When I do a lot of reporting I feel like I need to put every piece of information I got even if it doesn’t relate to my focus because I did a lot of work to get it.
    What is the question driving the story?
    What is the story really about? Can you say it in two to three sentences? In one word?
    Those are usually the questions I write down on a piece of paper and answer before starting a story so I can refer back to them and actually see it in writing.
    This relates back to the fact why coaching editors (I think) are better than fixers because these questions can be coached through by someone who has a specific focus and an outside look.

    • I noticed the similarities between these two as well. And the issue of focusing on one point is something I struggle with in my writing too. I’m a bit flowery when it comes to writing, so I also agree with the need for coachers over fixers to help guide my writing. The questions are a handy way of setting focus to a story.

  5. I really zoned in on how both the chapter and Haung talked about asking writers questions to help them shape their story. One line (on page 27) from the chapter in particular stood out to me, “These questions asked, again and again, become lenses through which reporters see the world.” I liked this both because the questions an editor asks will help shape the immediate story, and also because it will help the writer better shape her/his own writing in the future. I think that is a huge part of an editors job–creating better writers–not just better immediate results.

    • This is exactly why coaching editors are better than fixers. I agree, an editor’s work should do more than just improve a story–it should also help the writer improve. I also think it’s important for reporters to keep the basic questions and their editor’s questions in mind when researching and writing/working on new stories.

    • I also loved this part. Questions are a simple way to both redirect writers in the present and train them for the future. By asking question an editor is fixing current stories and saving themselves from fixing future ones. I agree that this shows some of the best benefits of a coaching editor.

  6. Chapter 3 made me realize that I can relate with the writers who don’t trust their editors. Not only do I lack trust in my editors, I also try to avoid them. On page 26, there are examples of situations that teach the writer how to avoid their editor and how to avoid being edited. I find this interesting because our industry has the reputation of having the best communicators. It’s our job to communicate with the readers, but we can’t do it well if we struggle to communicate with our own editors, bosses, partners, or however we may call them. It’s OK to feel nervous when communicating with our editors, but I don’t think we should want to avoid them. This once again reassures the fact that writers do better when their editors are coaching editors.

    • I totally understand where you’re coming from with hesitating to trust editor’s with your prized article fresh off the printer. This chapter did offer good tips for when we edit other’s work, which is having promoting a positive message as well as fixing up what needs work. Constantly checking up on someone is something we as writers can promote to others as well.

    • I completely agree with your viewpoint. Editors need to realize that they seem intimidating to writers simply because they have the title of “editor”. Both the editor and writer need to work on bridging that gap of communication. Each person should look forward to bouncing ideas off of one another and creating a piece that is better than how it started. I like the side-by-side method that was mentioned earlier. The editor and writer sit side-by-side creating a more even playing field. The editor doesn’t look down at the writer from his/her desk, but really tries to be in the writer’s shoes.

  7. I also found the section on how to avoid editors and being edited interesting. As a writer being edited is inevitable, but at the same time it can be a scary reality. Especially when you run the risk of an editor taking your voice away, “Fixing” your piece and putting your name on work that you later don’t even recognize as yours. And you made a great point “our industry has the reputation of having the best communicators.” And yet the some of the most influential people within the industry (editors) struggle with successfully communicating with writers.

    But the “3 key moments to identify when coaching writers” identified great questions to ask throughout the 3 key phases a journalist goes through when writing a story. And from experiencing this type of coaching in JMC 91; I can say that it was extremely helpful to have the guidance during the process of me writing. And it took away a lot of the anxiety of me turning in a story to be edited.

    • I agree, I mean we are literally called communication majors. We are taught to create a dialogue with our readers — this is imperative as we’d be nothing without them. I also think we need to take the same approach with writers. Editors must try to be more conversational or writers will succeed in avoiding us, and what’s an editor without anything to edit?

    • I think this is a great place to bring around a part of the discussion we had in class last Wednesday—is there an appropriate time to be “fixing” editors? I said yes, but I think your point highlights that this needs to be a backup plan or a mindset for editors who only work with limited deadlines or no opportunity to coach. We need to be successful communicators, as you said. It’s our role!

  8. The thing that struck me the most was that on page 26 in the textbook a lot of points from Huang’s, “Three Key Moments,” were there as well. I guess this stresses the importance of these moments and it makes sense as to why. The whole point is to elaborate how editors are not these boss creatures to be feared, rather a support to help shape a story in the best way for the reader. These points guide new coaches to be this type of support.

    • I think you make a really good point. Editors are always seen as the bad guy/girl with the red pen and these chapters are helping me too with realizing good editors are there to shape and create the story along with the writer. It makes the writing and reporting process feel a lot more inspiring.

  9. A quote that stuck with me while reading the entire chapter was one I kept going back to and comparing other consulting techniques with. Donald Murray’s methods of consulting writers throughout the entire process proved very beneficial, especially the last quote on page 26. “Don’t look for the weakest aspect, but the strongest. It’s more helpful to reinforce what works, rather than what does not.” It’s easier to tell someone what needs to be fixed and what points don’t seem to make too much sense in an article, but finding those things that are cohesive and helpful to expand upon can seem daunting. Although the chapter basically stated this same idea, Murray’s wording helped the editor in me to understand that fixing an article doesn’t have to be all negative, and can really be as simple as finding that golden quote in the article and focusing on that.

    • Taylor, I definitely agree with you–Murray’s methods resonated with me as well. I have found in many aspects of life, not just the writing/editing process, that emphasizing things that work rather than harping on things that don’t will end up being significantly more beneficial in the long run. Finding the tiny “yes” nugget in an article full of “no” is what will help the editor find ways for the entire story to flourish.

  10. While we’ve focused a lot on how the conferencing process can assist writers, I really like one passage in the Clark and Fry book that discusses how the coaching process can actually be a showcase for the writers. Fry and Clark claim that editing conferences can be used “To make use of the knowledge and experiences of the writer” (22). Thus, conferencing is not only about the coach giving advice and input, but about the writer displaying what they know and using their experiences to build upon their skill. Tom Huang also addresses the coaching process with this positive mentality of self-development. According to Huang’s outline, editing is not a speech, but a dialogue in which the writer discusses what surprised them, what they learned, and what their plans are for the story. Although I probably haven’t thought of a conference as a way for the writer to showcase their knowledge and build upon it before, it makes a lot of sense to me and really enlightened what the coaching process should be.

    • I agree with you. That part in he chapter also really stood out to me, because I think that it will in the long run help the writer be better. The writer will actually know that they can report on the things that surprised them and make a more interesting story. I also think that sometimes people don’t know that they know a lot about something until they start explaining it.

  11. I liked the part of the chapter saying writers want ideas and discussion about their writing “when the idea is germinating, when the reporter returns from collecting information and after the draft comes in.” Writing to me is always a work in progress. Meeting at these key points in the process can generate the best possible story in the time allotted. Adding or changing ideas, depth, sentence structure, focus and grammar can occur at no end. Asking the writer questions stuck with me. It inspires and sparks ideas that only a conversation can create instead of one person.

    • I agree, Morgan. Though writing is usually seen as an individual act, it can best benefit from first being a conversation, and then evolving as a collaborative effort. I personally have dealt with editors who identified a large loophole or missing piece to my story that I couldn’t see myself, and these useful conversations were usually at the “after the first draft comes in” stage. Meeting with an editor when the story idea is “germinating” has been helpful for me, too. When a writer has to vocalize a story concept to an editor or peer, it becomes more concrete and can suddenly gain a confident sense of direction. This can give us, as writers, a clearer picture of where we’re heading with a story, and save a lot of time and effort in the reporting process.

  12. While reading “Coaching Writers” Chapter 3 “How to consult with Reporters” the part that really stuck out to me was on page 27 where the writer talks about editors questions become echoes in writers minds. I believe that writers get stuck in a rut and when they are covering an event they just get the basic story and don’t really look for something that might surprise and delight their readers.

    I think having questioned like “what happened?” , “How can you make it clear?” , “What is your best quote?” can really change a story. I know for me personally I wrote a story over a Health Science class and I kept coming back to a quote I had got and really loved. I didn’t think it fit with my story because I thought I just needed to report on what the class was about and what was going on. My editor asked me what I liked about covering this story and I told her about this quote and what lead to the person saying this wacky quote. Not only did it make a more interesting story but the readers enjoyed it because it wasn’t the same old boring coverage of an event.

    • I agree that these questions can really help a writer develop their ideas. It helps writers to think like an editor so they can get out of their writing rut. They are simple questions but can make a big difference as the writer works on a story. I need to get in the habit of asking myself these questions as I am writing.

  13. I like the notion of an editor asking the same questions, or couple of questions, each time a reporter needs help. In the reading, Ray Lyle always asked his writers, “What happened?” to get the writers thinking. After a while, the writers would ask themselves this question before even talking to Lyle because they knew the question by heart. Asking those few simple questions is a powerful tool that helps the writer think more like an editor and ultimately, leads to less editing down the road. I also liked the list of questions on page 27. The questions were straight-forward, simple, and are necessary for a story to convey the right information. I wrote the questions down in my notes so I can answer them while I am writing my own articles.

  14. I enjoyed the “Editing Side by Side” sidebar on page 31 of the textbook, featuring editing tips by writing coach Donald Murray. I highlighted several phrases such as “The text belongs to the writer” and “I keep revealing the possibilities of the text (to the writer).” Murray’s approach is simple: as editor, don’t merely make the writing “your own.” I’m new to this editing biz, and these suggestions are a helpful insight into seeing writing as a collaborative process. In Murray’s worldview, an editor isn’t “the boss” or the final say, but acts instead as a resource for bouncing off ideas or aiding struggles. An editor as coach offers insight, not instruction. Personally, if I find myself in an editorial position, I’d like to act as a counselor of sorts to my writer, helping her work through difficult spots and supporting her successes.
    Yesterday, a friend asked me to revise a story she had written for class. With this new editorial “coaching” gusto in mind, I asked her a few questions before I even read a word. “What do you like about the piece?” I asked, and “what are some concerns you have about it?” I then read her story with a new sense of clarity for her purpose, and helped her accordingly. She was really grateful for my hands-off helping approach, and came up with a final story draft that she loved.

    • I liked that section of the reading as well. Sitting next to a writer and working with him or her sends a “I’m here to help” message, whereas seeing him or her on the other side of the desk says “I’m evaluating you.” As a writer, It would put me at ease to have an editor sitting next to me, playing around with language and structure, rather than submitting an article on pins and needles.

  15. What stuck out to me was the idea of editing before reading the writer’s manuscript, like the example when the editor says “Let’s talk first” before reading the writer’s draft. In my own experiences, there have been times that I’ve turned in a draft that I know still needs a bit of work or just doesn’t sound the way I want it to. I always feel like I need to defend the story by saying something like “I’m still working on XYZ,” but to me, that just sounds like an excuse. However, if an editor explicitly asked me how I felt about a story, I would feel more comfortable explaining how I feel about the assignment.

    On the other hand, this pre-reading conversation is helpful for the editor as well: They get a chance to hear from the writer, understand the challenges with the story, and guide the writer for the next draft. Talking to the writer before reading their work is definitely something I would like to try in the future.

  16. I thought “The Unnatural Act of Listening” by Paul Pohlman was interesting. I especially liked the point where he emphasized the “symbolic geography” in where the editor met with the writer. Places like the reporter’s desk or the cafeteria seem more friendly and spontaneous, resulting in a (hopefully) more honest and relaxed writer. I know it’s not something I ever really thought about, but as an editor you want to show that you’re there to collaborate, not to just fix what you think is wrong.

    I also found the listening tips helpful. I consider myself to be a decent listener, but I usually keep pretty quiet and let the other person speak. I thought the verbal skills (encouraging, restating, reflecting and summarizing) Pohlman went over are especially helpful for writers. They show the reporter that you are actually engaged and on the cusp of discussion instead of just silently waiting for him or her to finish before delivering a verdict on the entire story.

    • I also enjoyed Pohlman’s article within the chapter. It emphasized the best places to work with writers, and how the editor’s focus shouldn’t waver from person to person during conferencing. By doing this, writer’s may start to believe that their pieces are less important to the editor than others.

    • I really appreciated the listening tips as well Austin. I interviewed this jewellery designer once whose house was featured in the magazine I was interning for and she was a real character. My editor asked that I come straight to her office after the interview to talk about it. I remember going in and just talking for 20 minutes straight about the hilarious, quirky things this woman had said and the amazing art that she had in her home. All the while, my editor was taking notes on what I was saying. When I handed in my article, she reminded me of moments and details I had mentioned to her in our first meeting, that I had missed in the write up. I couldn’t have been more thankful that she was listening so intently. The bits and pieces I had missed, added just that little bit of extra spice in the article that my editor was looking for to make the story.

  17. As a writer, I would rather my editors’ listen to what I have to say about the piece that I am working on, rather than berate and harass me about the mistakes I have made. Listening to writers and acknowledging that your body language, eye contact, and facial expressions when listening and editing a writer’s story help demonstrate how sensitive writers can be. Writers crave feedback like drug addicts crave their next hit. What my editors never understood was constructive criticism– phrasing their feedback to encourage their writers, focusing on what was strong before pointing out the weaknesses. What I think the chapter focused on the most was how important listening and questioning writers is to help them repair their work. The best coach I have ever had in terms of feedback was my swimming coach of around ten years. He always seemed to understand when I need helpful words of encouragement and when I needed to be reminded of the goals I had set in hopes of reaching. What my coach did best though, was listening and asking questions to everyone on the team.

  18. While reading “Coaching Writers,” the sentence in chapter three stuck out to me, “As a good editor, you must prove to the writer that no evil consequences will flow from sharing work with you” (p. 26). As a writer, it is sometimes nerve-wracking to have an editor read you work if you are not feeling particularly confident about it. I like how this chapter emphasized that good editors listen to the writer. This gives the writer a chance to hear their thoughts out loud and make changes that they may not have seen before. A conference with an editor can be as short as 30 seconds, but those 30 seconds can give the writer what they need to make their story better.

    In Tom Huang’s “Three Key Moments,” he lays out the key moments of an editor’s coaching process. I love the question, “What is the question driving the story?” If the story lacks focus this one simple question can help the reader get back on track. This can also help them develop their story if they are feeling stuck. For me, if an editor asks me this question it helps me find focus when I get off on unnecessary tangents.

  19. Like Kristin, I also thought the idea of talking through a piece and effectively communicating with a writer before actually editing the manuscript was an action I could see myself adopting. Most people may see this as too much time to spend before a story is even researched—these are clearly those who are set on the “fixing” style of editing. It will be best for us as learning editors to abandon the automatic fixing when we have the time and opportunities to coach our writers. I think this part of the chapter went hand in hand with the piece by Tom Huang that we were also assigned to read. Huang’s guidelines for better editing also discussed stages that are critical to the editor/writer relationship. He pinpoints where we should be speaking to writers, such as before the reporting, before the writing, and before the first edit. If you combine these two practices, there will be much more coaching than fixing. This method of editing will become more automatic, not conscious. Talking through a piece with a writer will also eliminate weak stories, manuscripts that lack focus, and a miscommunication of expectations for the publication you (and the writer) are representing.

    • I couldn’t agree more with you Sami. I feel like a lot of editors wait till they have something to read before they begin editing, when they could make their lives so much easier by taking an interest and getting acquainted with the information the writer is gathering from the very beginning. I feel like there is no better way to help a writer find a focus than to communicate with them as soon as possible.

  20. As I read the third chapter of Coaching Writers, I found many helpful pieces as both a writer and later an editor. The most important for myself, however, came on page 23. Clark said, “The writer may not know what he knows, and can benefit form hearing himself talk about the story.” Often times when I am preparing a story, I hear one quote or see a certain statistic that really sticks in my head, and I try to run the story along with it. Sometimes it works, but other times I am completely missing the most important information to the reader, and I hit a dead-end. Hearing myself talk about the information always helps. If I am answering specific questions about the material I gathered, I often refine what the focus should be and can polish the story from there. I never get anywhere thinking over and over to myself, so I have found through my writing that slowing down and talking out loud about the story can transform your draft to a quality news article.

  21. The example quotes given by unsatisfied writers on page 24 stuck out to me. I am hardly ever satisfied with a story when I turn it in and I often use the phrase “this is a mess.” I am telling the editor that the story has issues but I am really saying, “I know it is bad. Please do not be mad at me.”
    After reading this chapter I realize that when writers do that you should speak with them about it. Simply asking the writer what the main issues are gives you insight that you would otherwise not have. You learn what issues the writer realized and what issues they do not. You can then collaborate on solving the issues together.
    On page 26 the authors say, “as a good editor, you must prove to the writer that no evil consequence will flow from sharing work with you.” A writer should not be afraid to turn in a story they put effort into. Rather they should look forward to it as a time to conference with the editor about their work. “This is a mess” really means “help me” and editors must answer that call.

    • Malinda Jorgensen

      I agree with you that it is hard to be satisfied with a story when turning it in. I can be a perfectionist when it comes to writing things, so I sometimes am not satisfied about my writing. I would sometimes think that I will get a C or whatever grade, because at the time, I don’t think I did well. With a coaching editor, the editor would talk to me about how I could improve my writing and how I can be satisfied with my story. Or maybe I shouldn’t be worrying about how well my writing is and just go with it.

  22. Malinda Jorgensen

    I had to agree with the authors of “Coaching Writers” right from the start. Writers really want editors to actually “respond” to the article. For example, writers would like to have feedback about their writing. They don’t want editors to offer vague advice; they want them to offer specific advice.
    Those parts were interesting to read, but the part I really liked the most was telling the story out loud and putting it on paper. “In effective conferences, the writer does most of the talking. And the editor who hears good things out of the mouth of the reporter can make sure that those things get in the story” (p.g. 23). The authors lists examples after examples where the writer got the idea how to write the article after telling the editor what the story was about.
    There was a tutor in one of my writing workshops who suggested to me that I should read my writing pieces out loud. In doing that, it would help me catch errors that I make in my paper. I haven’t even tried doing it yet, but I will have to test it out when the paper assignments start to come in. I also would probably apply this to my writing career that I will have someday, because I think it will help me be a better writer. Better writer, better paper!

  23. I was effected by the quote by Cynthia Gorney on page 25 that says, “What makes an editor great is support. I don’t know a writer who isn’t insecure.” I do believe that editors have the power to make their writers feel confident or insecure. Often when i hand in articles I’m never completely satisfied with them. I can’t tell if they’re well written or convey what I am trying to show. That’s why I think its important to have conversations with your editors; Through conversation it can be easier to explain what an article is about. After the editor has these conversations with their writers, they know what the writer is trying to say and can see if the article actually conveys that.

  24. The sections of our reading that stuck out the most to me were the sections in the book that talked about the importance of listening and wanting to listen. All of Huang’s article did a great job of illustrating that effective coaching involves an ongoing dialogue that begins before the story is even written. Helping a reporter create the guide for what will become their story will help the writing process, the creative process, and make editing the work easier in the long run. I agree that talking about what you’re writing out loud can have major benefits to the style of writing and the pieces that are most important to include. For me, being asked questions all through the reporting process is the most helpful and defines the “coaching” process.

  25. The best advice I got from reading this chapter was the importance of talking about your article. I gave this example before, but when my editor asked me questions about my article, my responses had a lot more information in them than the write up that was lying on her desk. It wasn’t that I didn’t have enough information, but I didn’t know what was more important. Her questions were also out of genuine interest, which made me comfortable enough and willing to share all the information I had on the topic. It also wasn’t uncommon for the editors to assign interns with articles and then come and follow up a few days after in person, before the write up had began. Even though it seemed intimidating for us at first, it helped us find a focus in our stories and overall report much better than if we were to find our own way. The best question my editors have asked me in the past is “Why do the readers care?” Answering that question has always shed light on how to better report the information at hand and makes it so much easier to pick what is important and relevant and what is not.

  26. Something that genuinely stuck with me as I was reading the chapter and Huang’s article was how many times tips about asking questions and always listening were brought up. We discussed this a lot in class as well–it came up when writers were recalling their best experiences with editors and vice versa. The questions in the constant dialogue between writer and editor are what constantly drives the writing, editing, and publishing process. The guiding question and overriding theme are what makes the point of the story shine through. Forgetting the theme of a story and the reason for publishing it usually compromises the integrity of the piece. I especially liked when Huang suggests asking what surprised the writer most, because it’s usually in those moments where the writer remembers a key moment they wanted to include or an essence they wanted to capture. This all relates to the basic school of thought regarding coaching versus fixing. It’s important to let the writer find their own voice while taking each step with them along the way.

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